Apr
26
26
Quote of the Day
From the desk of Lileks, riddle him this:
One final point: if ?ou?d lived under Saddam?s rule all your life, and you saw the Americans coming to kill him and his clan, and you believed in your heart this was really about oil . . . would that really matter? Would it matter to you at all?
Of course, as much of the antiwar crowd are willing to believe (or at least to parrot), Iraq is composed of millions of die-hard Saddamites who would gladly take up their pitchforks and tilt at B-52’s, giving their little patch of desert a bright new red color in order to protect the right to have their eyes gouged out and their children starved to death.
It seems the Muslim version of a slander suit is cutting off your head. Now when I read this I was shocked, just shockedalternative economy." I suppose that's better PR than saying they want to impose a grab bag full of sociialistic silliness
attack against the United States. Even though President Bush acknowledged in his speech that Iraq does not currently
A taste, just a taste...
the not-being-a-jerk department.
faith at large, since many of them are peaceful, albeit intellectually stunted, people.
Russia and shit. Besides, it's just the Russians. Why don't we just contain them or something? Hey, who's up for some
Kevin Mitnick will be able to use a computer again in approximately 3 months.
Now at this point, most people would just say, "let it go, and move on."
The book details the ways that employees can inadvertently leak information that can be exploited by hackers to compromise
I'll get a chance to ask why they've been glorifying images of Hamas murderers on their flyers.
the world to stomach the imperial scent of our newly enunciated military doctrine that proposes pre- emption of any powerful
Sorry folks, but slippery slope arguments don't hold water by themselves. We're going after Saddam because he 1) has shown
has been built up around Mitnick, a basically curious guy who just as often used old face-to-face (or voice-to-voice)
Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard at 09:13 PM | Comments (4)
use grown-up scissors), but nevertheless, even though he really didn't deserve it,
My sentences, thus decreed, will be subsequently carried out by my elite brigade of Beheading Gnomes, whom I made up
lap dance.
What it does not mean however, is that this suddenly signals that we are going to be going after China, Saudi Arabia, Cuba
Mr Mitnick even had to get permission from his probation officer to use a computer to write his book, The Art Of Deception,
assures everyone that "Don't worry, the problem is being taking care of by the inspectors."
Many in the global community also distrust the Bush administration's expanding war aims. It is not easy for our friends around
going to be monitored so closely that I'd be surprised if he were able to put in a phony name at a porn site and not have
threaten the United States, he said we must "assume the worst." Essentially, the White House is proposing that the
For that reason and others, I didn't actually start reading the news coverage until this morning.
You must be triple jointed to be able to twist words like that.
The article also points to this site, which maintains a running clock of how long it will be until Mitnick can start
Sorry folks, but slippery slope arguments don't hold water by themselves. We're going after Saddam because he 1) has shown
I've been blogging since July 2005, and in that time, I've had a few inter-blog arguments with the folks on the other
computer systems.
"to prolonged indulgence in luxury and soft, effortless ease, or to the deification of a warped and twisted sentimentality"?
But for now if you all don't mind, I'd just like to stew in my rage for a while, and remind myself in a truly visceral
to the San Francisco federal building to protest the passage of Bush's resolution for action against Iraq.
anger that is so justifiable -no, demanded- by these despicable acts, but if that must be the case, then from on, I'll be
and you'll get diversity in the speech by the politician, in the one by the principal who welcomes him and in the one by
That is, until this morning. Now I'm glad to say that I've gotten over getting over it, and am thoroughly pissed again.
One middle-aged woman who looked like she hadn't combed her hair since Jerry Garcia died had this to say, when asked
Such as this quote by Teddy Roosevelt concerning his acceptance of the Nobel Peace Prize, posted now
Well I'm far far far too petty a person to do that.
that extended anger and sadness bring, or maybe even from just the fact that my threshold of human suffering sufficient
When they aired some actual interviews with the protesters, I started to honestly think they were part of some sort of
It is time for a new day to dawn in the Blogosphere, my gnome brothers. A glorious day. A day when no longer will we
threaten the United States, he said we must "assume the worst." Essentially, the White House is proposing that the
Now at this point, most people would just say, "let it go, and move on."
Also, I've printed out and made a bunch of copies of some flyers from this site and will be passing them out.
When they aired some actual interviews with the protesters, I started to honestly think they were part of some sort of
course grew out of the experience of 9/11.
lying in order to gain information that gave him access to restricted systems.
we despise no less the coward and the voluptuary. No man is worth calling a man who will not fight
The article also points to this site, which maintains a running clock of how long it will be until Mitnick can start
lap dance.
weapons inspections in Iraq represent a good example of how the rule of law has been used, and can be used again, to avert
And at most, UN weapons inspectors have delayed conflict by a few years, not averted it. In actualyity, I think they have
When they aired some actual interviews with the protesters, I started to honestly think they were part of some sort of
going to be monitored so closely that I'd be surprised if he were able to put in a phony name at a porn site and not have
During that protest, my girlfriend had to take a midterm in Wheeler auditorium and had to step over the bodies lying in
vulnerability.
to prolonged indulgence in luxury and soft, effortless ease, or to the deification of a warped and twisted sentimentality.
slope proposition, claiming that because we go after Saddam, we'll suddenly be all aggro-ed up to obliterate any country
I don't know about you people, but I'm already stocking up on extra food, water, and electrons.
anger that is so justifiable -no, demanded- by these despicable acts, but if that must be the case, then from on, I'll be
really just put Saddam in a better situation than he was before because the presence of inspectors invites complacency and
So welcome. If this is the first and/or only post you can see, it means I haven't imported my archives from Blogspot yet,
One middle-aged woman who looked like she hadn't combed her hair since Jerry Garcia died had this to say, when asked
At the very least, don't let me hear any of these things when you're standing in my presence, unless you want a faceful
We despise and abhor the bully, the brawler, the oppressor, whether in private or public life, but
In your face, Space Coyote!
I figured that was the way to go. But then I read this.
Quite the contrary, Bush's aggressive rhetoric, disregard for international law, and his lack of any vision other than war
of fist.
conflict.
Well, being the abject conformist that I am, I would like to welcome all new and oldcomers to my new blog, which will
I strongly suspect TR had access to some sort of time machine and traveled into the furture about a hundred years.
be harried by idiots who have full compliments of heads and genitals! With the ranks of my imaginary gnomes rallied,
"Standing in the foyer of the Bounty Hotel, people were just walking in, blood dripping off them, burns to their face, skin
getting an education. When she tried to talk to one of the organizers after her test about how some people were just
use grown-up scissors), but nevertheless, even though he really didn't deserve it,
Either that, or I now have to admit the existence of clairvoyance.
agree that [insert additional badly-forced car metaphor here]!
An insightful, well-written and quite simply excellent column somehow found its way in the SF Chronicle's website today.
Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard at 09:13 PM | Comments (4)
world that even today harbors and offers succor to the same groups that piloted the 9/11 planes, right?
"approach parody" is too mild. They sprinted towards parody, jumped on top of it and proceded to give parody a spirited
the real fault of that government or its citizens, or the West in general, or capitalism, or any other ridiculous boogeyman
sloth, or as an instrument to further the ends of despotism or anarchy.
and you'll get diversity in the speech by the politician, in the one by the principal who welcomes him and in the one by
Heaven forfend them not being on board with us!
going to be monitored so closely that I'd be surprised if he were able to put in a phony name at a porn site and not have
At the very least, don't let me hear any of these things when you're standing in my presence, unless you want a faceful
let you know when there's a mushroom cloud over New York, because that's the only "final proof" that seems to be able to
predictable frequency. Follow a politician to a school photo-op,
superiority.
both at home and abroad, can go heartily fuck themselves, or jump off a cliff, or shoot themselves in the head. I don't
by both Instapundit and Cold Fury (and probably by sundry others by now):
a careful, precise argument, what point is there in engaging them verbally anymore?
You must be triple jointed to be able to twist words like that.
Saddam will use these nukes when he gets them, whether that use takes the form of vaporizing a city or merely being hung
You mean everyone in America aren't like San Franciscans?
looks like a green light, no?
But anyway, right there you've got yourself eight nations total in the coalition, hailing from North America, both western
news editors of Cannel 7 to allow, as the segment ended right there.
By tossing out any reasonable standards of evidence as a prerequisite for military action, the White House puts us in a state
agree that [insert additional badly-forced car metaphor here]!
some of their cohorts are actually being held accountable by the university for their disruptive, illegal actions at
We despise and abhor the bully, the brawler, the oppressor, whether in private or public life, but
The Muslim world -- whose support is vital to any real effort to end the causes of terrorism -- is adamantly opposed.
that blatantly called for some rhetorical bitch-slapping.
Quite the contrary, Bush's aggressive rhetoric, disregard for international law, and his lack of any vision other than war
...but there's no shame in being a follower when those you're following make such damn good points.
a careful, precise argument, what point is there in engaging them verbally anymore?
And perhaps because of the collective weight of all those accumulated exhortations, perhaps from the psychic weariness
and make them wish that congress had instead passed a resolution authorizing military force against people
Sorry folks, but slippery slope arguments don't hold water by themselves. We're going after Saddam because he 1) has shown
looks like a green light, no?
getting an education. When she tried to talk to one of the organizers after her test about how some people were just
Hesiod over at Counterspin Central is one such fellow. Not only with myself, but in his conversations with Den Beste,
Really, how often is someone able to so perfectly crystallize the dilemmas that will exist a century in the future
Anyway, take the new site for a test drive. Take her easy on the clutch and go steady on the hills, and I think you'll
It seems the Muslim version of a slander suit is cutting off your head. Now when I read this I was shocked, just shocked
you could see stink lines of self-satisfaction coming off her so that he could simply get to his job. She of course started
I suppose you mean that it's not "multilateralist" unless France says so?
Hey, didn't there used to be a city where this smoking crater is?
Heh. Didn't Nostradamus write something about "a bespeckled plague rising in the West..."?
One of the great advances of the modern era has been the spread of the rule of law. This is the now common idea that
The BBC has a story about the so-called "master hacker", in which it does a good job of destroying the mythos that
again soon, didn't we?"
But I am thankful that at least for now, I've been able to summon that deep-seated, personal wrath so appropriate to an
to penetrate.
of a lack of imagination or basic humanity; the fact that it's difficult for me to feel deeply for people suffering unless
Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard at 09:37 AM | Comments (0)
Stand up to these thugs This Wednesday, the 16th at noon, an apparent composite of the Students for Justice in Palestine
weapons inspections in Iraq represent a good example of how the rule of law has been used, and can be used again, to avert
computer systems.
to elicit empathy had been raised considerably since 9/11,
My sentences, thus decreed, will be subsequently carried out by my elite brigade of Beheading Gnomes, whom I made up
in words so much more exacting than even those who actually live in that time would be able to produce?
So seeing as how we've got massive approval from the House of Representatives and similar support in the senate is likely,
off a bunch of secretaries and other office workers who probably agree with them on the war anyway will further their
But anyway, right there you've got yourself eight nations total in the coalition, hailing from North America, both western
assures everyone that "Don't worry, the problem is being taking care of by the inspectors."
who like to chant slogans and can't come up with any better rhyme than something that has to do with the number "four" and "war."
it is shoved, in all its detailed horror, right into my face.
be harried by idiots who have full compliments of heads and genitals! With the ranks of my imaginary gnomes rallied,
to all of you warmongering neanderthals" tone of voice. She then struck a pose of righteous exasperation when she asked
conflict.
to get a good smack upside the head (or as I call it, a "hippie hello"), but that was apparently too much for the niggardly
world that even today harbors and offers succor to the same groups that piloted the 9/11 planes, right?
Why are you still here?!
going to be monitored so closely that I'd be surprised if he were able to put in a phony name at a porn site and not have
I simply love it when my case is made for me.
Mr Mitnick even had to get permission from his probation officer to use a computer to write his book, The Art Of Deception,
needed now was healing, closure; in short, to "get over it" and "move on."
the efforts to find these people and eradicate them, to ferret them out from their cowardly hiding places and vaporize
who like to chant slogans and can't come up with any better rhyme than something that has to do with the number "four" and "war."
I wish that I could just be told "Hundreds of people died in a terrorist bombing today," and instantly feel the kind of rage
so that he will be better equipped to fulfill point 1). Show me another nation that's like that today.
I see. Did you talk to this "everyone" at your International Socialist Organization direct action planning seminar or
I guess not. The fact that the UN is anything but democratic since the vast majority of countries represented there do not
"The lethal combination is when you exploit both people and technology," Mr Mitnick told BBC News Online.
My sentences, thus decreed, will be subsequently carried out by my elite brigade of Beheading Gnomes, whom I made up
curiosity that trumps any sort of legal resriction placed on him, but it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that he's
occurred, smashing the window of their hotel room.
for the life of me, cannot see it. The news showed a clip of a guy trying politely to walk around a woman so self-righteous
hunting dairy cows with a high-powered rifle and scope."
assures everyone that "Don't worry, the problem is being taking care of by the inspectors."
who like to chant slogans and can't come up with any better rhyme than something that has to do with the number "four" and "war."
the world to stomach the imperial scent of our newly enunciated military doctrine that proposes pre- emption of any powerful
he is willing to act aggressively and recklessly and cannot be reasonably deterred and 2) is working to get and use nukes
, "I don't believe the American people support this war. Everyone I've talked to is against it!"
I guess not. The fact that the UN is anything but democratic since the vast majority of countries represented there do not
to get a good smack upside the head (or as I call it, a "hippie hello"), but that was apparently too much for the niggardly
Also, I've printed out and made a bunch of copies of some flyers from this site and will be passing them out.
slope proposition, claiming that because we go after Saddam, we'll suddenly be all aggro-ed up to obliterate any country
going to be monitored so closely that I'd be surprised if he were able to put in a phony name at a porn site and not have
So seeing as how we've got massive approval from the House of Representatives and similar support in the senate is likely,
Mr Mitnick even had to get permission from his probation officer to use a computer to write his book, The Art Of Deception,
Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard at 09:13 PM | Comments (4)
them into a thin paste of protein on a cave wall, to wipe out every last vestige of the disgusting stain they have left
Heh. Didn't Nostradamus write something about "a bespeckled plague rising in the West..."?
that boiled up to the surface when I read things like this.
to the San Francisco federal building to protest the passage of Bush's resolution for action against Iraq.
"A bunch of people died from terrorism over the weekend? Sure, that's awful, but we all knew this was going to happen
find testimonials to diversity. Flip through any recent social sciences or humanities textbook and diversity pops up with
No nation deserves to exist if it permits itself to lose the stern and virile virtues; and this
Many in the global community also distrust the Bush administration's expanding war aims. It is not easy for our friends around
It is time for a new day to dawn in the Blogosphere, my gnome brothers. A glorious day. A day when no longer will we
Don't you people ever get tired of just pulling shit out of your asses?
University or Diversity
computer systems.
that extended anger and sadness bring, or maybe even from just the fact that my threshold of human suffering sufficient
the teacher trying to impress both of them.
psychopathic fancy without fear of retribution.
Falwell was a "mercenary and must be killed," the Farsi-language daily Abrar reported Saturday.
threaten the United States, he said we must "assume the worst." Essentially, the White House is proposing that the
For that reason and others, I didn't actually start reading the news coverage until this morning.
and you'll get diversity in the speech by the politician, in the one by the principal who welcomes him and in the one by
I strongly suspect TR had access to some sort of time machine and traveled into the furture about a hundred years.
it is shoved, in all its detailed horror, right into my face.
that has the temerity to look at us cock-eyed.
some of their cohorts are actually being held accountable by the university for their disruptive, illegal actions at
anger that is so justifiable -no, demanded- by these despicable acts, but if that must be the case, then from on, I'll be
"The lethal combination is when you exploit both people and technology," Mr Mitnick told BBC News Online.
be replacing the old site that was hosted on that evil of evils, that bane of banes, that something-really-awful of
way why we're doing all of this, and why, if they still choose to berate us about "root causes" and "birds coming home
going to be monitored so closely that I'd be surprised if he were able to put in a phony name at a porn site and not have
So seeing as how we've got massive approval from the House of Representatives and similar support in the senate is likely,
lying in order to gain information that gave him access to restricted systems.
Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard at 09:13 PM | Comments (4)
Hey, didn't there used to be a city where this smoking crater is?
we could go and stop the Soviets and all their expansionist hijinks, but then we'd like, have to go all the way over to
to make the first world poor and make sure the third world stays that way.
when you apply your own internal calculus of death and suffering and conclude that it isn't something that you need
I mean come on, when you're arguing with someone who's just going to call you a Nazi when you spend 2,000 words making
we despise no less the coward and the voluptuary. No man is worth calling a man who will not fight
Containment and deterrence were responses to US weakness, you silly-headed dunderpate. It was obvious that using direct
something-really-awfuls, BlogSpot.
Bush also spoke of an "international coalition" that would disarm Hussein. Bush knows the American public is loathe to
and the decisions to do so would based on (as in this case) measured calculations of the relative benefits and costs,
Peace is generally good in itself, but it is never the highest good unless it comes as the handmaid
In fact, the idea of pre- emptive attack depends on fear. It presupposes insecurity and assumes we will always be threatened.
In your face, Space Coyote!
them into a thin paste of protein on a cave wall, to wipe out every last vestige of the disgusting stain they have left
we could go and stop the Soviets and all their expansionist hijinks, but then we'd like, have to go all the way over to
Sure, it'd be nice to be a leader...
he is willing to act aggressively and recklessly and cannot be reasonably deterred and 2) is working to get and use nukes
the All Men Are Rapists self defense workshop? Surely that must be a representative sample of the country!
But I am thankful that at least for now, I've been able to summon that deep-seated, personal wrath so appropriate to an
superiority.
War, by three fellows that hail from Global Exchange. You know who I'm talking about. The folks that want to "build an
both at home and abroad, can go heartily fuck themselves, or jump off a cliff, or shoot themselves in the head. I don't
and the UC Divestment folks will be holding a rally for what looks like the primary purpose of protesting the fact that
obviously they have lost loved ones or friends."
vulnerability.
be replacing the old site that was hosted on that evil of evils, that bane of banes, that something-really-awful of
But for now if you all don't mind, I'd just like to stew in my rage for a while, and remind myself in a truly visceral
going to be monitored so closely that I'd be surprised if he were able to put in a phony name at a porn site and not have
...but there's no shame in being a follower when those you're following make such damn good points.
"A bunch of people died from terrorism over the weekend? Sure, that's awful, but we all knew this was going to happen
So I hereby declare myself Ayatollah Mustardah of Blogistan. From this day forward, I will call down, on any Idiotarian
they're done, hang them on his wall next to the framed heads of Iraqi dissidents and say to himself, "Well, I can check
I tried to present my ideas in an honest and truthful way, and not be seriously offensive, even when he acted in ways
about equal probability.
After 3000 of your countrymen die in a couple hours, anything less than that is wont to be downplayed in significance
that I hadn't thought of it first!
let you know when there's a mushroom cloud over New York, because that's the only "final proof" that seems to be able to
the not-being-a-jerk department.
something-really-awfuls, BlogSpot.
in words so much more exacting than even those who actually live in that time would be able to produce?
"The death of that man is a religious duty, but his case should not be tied to the Christian community," Shabestari,
attack against the United States. Even though President Bush acknowledged in his speech that Iraq does not currently
The experience made me think of the instructions from all corners of the media after 9/11 that what we, as Americans,
So I hereby declare myself Ayatollah Mustardah of Blogistan. From this day forward, I will call down, on any Idiotarian
to prolonged indulgence in luxury and soft, effortless ease, or to the deification of a warped and twisted sentimentality.
we could go and stop the Soviets and all their expansionist hijinks, but then we'd like, have to go all the way over to
to make the first world poor and make sure the third world stays that way.
or any other simply crappy country in the world, because none of them satisfy both those propositions.
I'm going to be checking the weather channel for reports of snowflakes in Hell, but meanwhile you should go read it now.
rather than submit to infamy or see those that are dear to him suffer wrong.
he revealed himself to be a seriously dishonest debater (that, or he was so stupid that it wouldn't be safe for him to
fact that these people are thugs, bullies and liars.
to roost," those sniveling, carping appeasers,
"The death of that man is a religious duty, but his case should not be tied to the Christian community," Shabestari,
Yes, well I suppose you're suggesting that we would be well-served to wait for this "final proof," then? Very well. I'll
vulnerability.
jerkwad I encounter, an order for them to be beheaded with extreme prejudice until the the point at which they are dead
Heh. Didn't Nostradamus write something about "a bespeckled plague rising in the West..."?
the world to stomach the imperial scent of our newly enunciated military doctrine that proposes pre- emption of any powerful
I don't know about you people, but I'm already stocking up on extra food, water, and electrons.
Wheeler Hall last spring.
let you know when there's a mushroom cloud over New York, because that's the only "final proof" that seems to be able to
he revealed himself to be a seriously dishonest debater (that, or he was so stupid that it wouldn't be safe for him to
So welcome. If this is the first and/or only post you can see, it means I haven't imported my archives from Blogspot yet,
Really, how often is someone able to so perfectly crystallize the dilemmas that will exist a century in the future
not just "fear," as if we're going to indiscriminantly nuke the floor under our beds because monsters might be hiding there.
cause, but I,
getting an education. When she tried to talk to one of the organizers after her test about how some people were just
they're done, hang them on his wall next to the framed heads of Iraqi dissidents and say to himself, "Well, I can check
That is, until this morning. Now I'm glad to say that I've gotten over getting over it, and am thoroughly pissed again.
way why we're doing all of this, and why, if they still choose to berate us about "root causes" and "birds coming home
why she thought there weren't more stories about protests going on in the news, "Well, because the media is corporately
Peace is generally good in itself, but it is never the highest good unless it comes as the handmaid
In fact, the idea of pre- emptive attack depends on fear. It presupposes insecurity and assumes we will always be threatened.
and you'll get diversity in the speech by the politician, in the one by the principal who welcomes him and in the one by
I strongly suspect TR had access to some sort of time machine and traveled into the furture about a hundred years.
it is shoved, in all its detailed horror, right into my face.
nothing may stand in our way!
Already, even if the UN thumbs its irrelevant nose at the idea of going after Iraq (and if it actually does, then they'll
A taste, just a taste...
rather than submit to infamy or see those that are dear to him suffer wrong.
being the reaction described above.
but they make up for any lack of actual existence with pure unadulterated enthusiasm.
course grew out of the experience of 9/11.
Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard at 12:47 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack (0)
Yes, well I suppose you're suggesting that we would be well-served to wait for this "final proof," then? Very well. I'll
And perhaps because of the collective weight of all those accumulated exhortations, perhaps from the psychic weariness
them into a thin paste of protein on a cave wall, to wipe out every last vestige of the disgusting stain they have left
When they aired some actual interviews with the protesters, I started to honestly think they were part of some sort of
Another Australian tourist, 18-year-old Rachel Hughes, said she and her boyfriend had just arrived in Kuta when the blast
The BBC has a story about the so-called "master hacker", in which it does a good job of destroying the mythos that
For that reason and others, I didn't actually start reading the news coverage until this morning.
And at most, UN weapons inspectors have delayed conflict by a few years, not averted it. In actualyity, I think they have
Those people are especially useful when they have access to the core computer systems that hackers would otherwise struggle
the world to stomach the imperial scent of our newly enunciated military doctrine that proposes pre- emption of any powerful
Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard at 09:37 AM | Comments (0)
After 3000 of your countrymen die in a couple hours, anything less than that is wont to be downplayed in significance
I'm going to be checking the weather channel for reports of snowflakes in Hell, but meanwhile you should go read it now.
The book details the ways that employees can inadvertently leak information that can be exploited by hackers to compromise
Do you mean the Muslim world that celebrated 9/11, saying the US deserved it all along? Or perhaps you mean the Muslim world
Finally, long after the fad has grown tiresome, everyone's attention turns to another scrap of dogma for the next decade.
in words so much more exacting than even those who actually live in that time would be able to produce?
democratically decided laws - - not the capriciousness of individual rulers -- should govern human affairs.
The BBC has a story about the so-called "master hacker", in which it does a good job of destroying the mythos that
For that reason and others, I didn't actually start reading the news coverage until this morning.
really just put Saddam in a better situation than he was before because the presence of inspectors invites complacency and
to penetrate.
War, by three fellows that hail from Global Exchange. You know who I'm talking about. The folks that want to "build an
care. Just don't let me hear anything about how this bombing that specifically targeted Australian civilians was somehow
, "I don't believe the American people support this war. Everyone I've talked to is against it!"
During the last half of the 20th century, this principle was expanded internationally through the United Nations. The U.N.
Hesiod over at Counterspin Central is one such fellow. Not only with myself, but in his conversations with Den Beste,
last update : 5-2-2012
